Moe is a well known privatizer who shills for the tech companies. He is usually wrong about nearly everything.

Gee, I don’t know Doug. Your record of shilling what you believe in isn’t winning you any converts that I can tell….quite the opposite actually.

And speaking of shilling for all things private, there’s nothing like a new year to remember your own dalliance with your elite private school. Why is it ok for you and not for Moe?

We have been over that 100X. I am retired, I help my wife with her school.

I for one am happy to see the constant teacher bashing on this and similar sites. It reminds any wayward traditional and conservative teachers that part of the real agenda is an attack on their standard of living so it cautions the Wayne of the world that the reformers do not have their economic best interests at heart.

It helps mobilize the federations that they have real enemies out there who wish to hurt them financially so they better keep their guard up an spend much more money lobbying and on political action.

The Mission Statement of the Hoover Institute tells you everything you need to know about this pair.

It is a far right wing privatization think tank.

http://www.hoover.org/about/mission-statement

They don’t accept the entire notion of public schools.

All of the world’s leading nations in education have very powerful teachers’ unions. The American states with the most powerful unions have the best results on the NAEP test. The states that restrict teachers’ unions have the worst results.

When Terry Moe says “they block reform” read “they block privatization” LOL.

SQR or their fiends in Fraser I, CD Howe Frontier or AIMS ought to do some polling to see where they are at. The federations do serious polling every 3 months to position their arguments.

Privatization as a concept is very unpopular. Privatization of education is even more unpopular. This is why you will never see even conservative politicians utter the words privatization but that is the agenda behind corporate reform in education or health care or social services.

Same Story – 2 Different Points Of View

Pennsylvania legislature just defeated bills to allow vouchers for school choice for poor children.

1.    Here is the Wall Street Journal lamenting that GOP legislative leaders bowed to union pressure and defeated school choice http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204879004577110601293489564.html

2.  Here’s a special interest group (supported by ? but called an education law center) in their item praising the defeat http://www.edlawcenter.org/news/archives/other-issues/vouchers-shot-down-in-pa-lets-keep-nj-voucher-free.html

Should such blatant use of power be used to cripple people’s chances to obtain a good education?  Does a bone-setter keep breaking his patient’s legs to stay in business?

you’re knee jerk responses and old, tired throw backs to “teacher bashing” when there’s no evidence whatsoever.

Keep pumping out the rhetoric though if it makes you feel somehow superior, but truthfully the teacher federations deserve the bash you keep talking about being directed at teachers.

You see Doug, when I think of good, individual classroom teachers I do NOT equate them with their federation.

Well, personally I don’t think technology can make a big difference for the majority.
His comments about how technology is going to radically change learning are eerily similar to what was said about television in its early days.

Technology can and is making a difference for the self-motivated. Somebody who is motivated to learn no matter what can find resources on the Internet to teach himself pretty much anything. For a student who believes that he can learn math and who is of healthy intelligence Khan Academy can replace most elementary teachers. Khan Academy in my opinion is the equivalent of a solid, competent teacher and perhaps a bit better because one can repeat things many times.

The catch with using technology to learn non-trivial things such as calculus, grammar, a foreign language is that one has to be to a large degree self-motivated and self-disciplined.

Because of that, I think technology is and will be helpful in a few niche areas, helping in a major way perhaps 10-15% of the students. Most students will still need a competent human to teach a well-sequenced curriculum and to encourage them along the way.

I believe, because it has been proven times and times again by successes such Engelmann’s, Spirit of Math’s, Jump Math’s that well-sequenced, field-tested curricula and competent teachers are the major part of any solution.

And neither do parents think of individual teachers equating them with the union. Parents see them as individuals, and in Canada, the unions have done a very good job, separating the actions of the individual teachers from the union messages, as well as merging the union messages and the individual teachers as a uniform front, creating an image of, the union only wants a quality education for all students,

Now parents are not a uniformed group, and they will never be uniformed. The union’s impact shows clear dividing lines. The other day, I had a rather heated discussion with a parent in Ontario, and do not asked me how it got started, because I can’t remember what got it started. The Ontario parent insisted that it is the responsibility of parents to ensure their child have a solid foundation in the 3 Rs, because that is not the teacher’s job, but the parent’s job. Apparently, public education is all screw up, because parents are too lazy to do it themselves, and parents should be glad to pay the extras in private tutoring, over and above what the school does not provide. I did debate, and no matter what, I became the exception, but I should not expect the school to do the remediation, because it is my responsibility.

Messages, the one liners are getting through, dividing parents into various camps, like the Ontario parent. On the American parent blogs, parents are fed up with the whole education system, and all they really want a quality education for their children, and end the long nights of remediation, or the monthly cash expenditure for private tutors. The bulk of parents cannot just walk away from the public education system, and have become trapped in the on going wars between unions, management and the other special interest groups, sending out their one line messages.

Why I had to laugh at Doug’s first post, because within the union ranks, there is a camp of union techies, just itching to introduce technology to the schools, to where on-line learning would be no different than sitting in a classroom with 30 students. From putting down caps, to what will be learned, to standards and the most radical one, get rid of the textbooks and any other printed material.

Some of the American union chapters, have taken the school boards and state to court, saying that online learning of any kind, should be conducted by a certified teacher, and no parent should have the right to teach their children on-line material. Of course, the suits did not make it pass first base, but the message did get out to the general public. Homeschoolers are under attack by the teachers’ unions, as they are here in Canada, by the teachers’ unions.

Going back to the Ontario parent, I stated, what would you have done if you were in my place. Her response, I suck it up, and do the same thing as you have done. I laugh at that one, and responded back, would you be able to commit your time, effort to help your child, because once in, you cannot stop, or you have every educrat undoing everything that is being done at home. Apparently, she did not get the union message of home schooling, but the message of homeschoolers are higher achievers than the public school counterparts. 

This Ontario parent is firmly in the camp of parents carrying the responsibility for the education of their children, and she is also firmly in the camp that only certified teachers should teach, but do not have the responsibility of ensuring a quality education. Apparently that is a parent’s job.

In the Fall EFTO newsletter, “All three political parties know they are vulnerable in the next election. In a minority situation all parties must be
more sensitive to the demands and wishes of
the electorate – both those who regularly support
them and those who they want to win over.
This means that, as a group, educators have
more clout and that your actions can make an
important difference. You know you make a
difference in the lives of your students with the work you do every day in the classroom. But
you can also make a difference by making it a
point to advocate for public education and for
your students. This means speaking up when
decisions are made that are not in the best
interest of your students.”
http://etfovoice.ca/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ETFO_Voice-Fall2011.pdf

I wonder when they are going to speak up that some of the programs especially in reading and writing and math are not working, and parents are sending their children to tutors, going the private route. I guess not, since it is obvious one of the important messages that has be repeated over and over again throughout the years, the parents are responsible for their children’s education, and not the teacher. Unions are far too busy working their political clout on the backs of the students, to ensure their best interests stay on top.

Tunya,

Don’y confuse your POVwith the majority. Privatization is very unpopular overall.

Dan, You see Dan, the teachers DO take attacks on the union personally. They are attacks on the family.

Attacks on the union are attacks on the standard of living of the teachers and policy attacks are attacks on their collective POV.

“Attacks on the union are attacks on the standard of living of the teachers and policy attacks are attacks on their collective POV.”

Well Doug, you hand handed the evidence that teachers’ union are not the best interests for students and the public.

As well as providing the evidence, the mindset, the attitudes of unions are look after me first mindset, as well as the other self-entitlement mindset, but more importantly guard against changes in pedagogy, curriculum, instruction that improves quality above the mediocrity level.  It is why, the adult low-literacy and numeracy rates are in the high 40s and low 50s, because it is in the union’s best interest to keep them high.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory Nancy. Many might take it as a bit of a slander against teachers. Not that unusual in your posts. I should just let it speak for itself.

Which full size nations do better than Canada with Pisa and Timms?

Summary of the relative performance of Canadian
students in the 2011 TIMSS.

The first column (26 for the first row) is the number of participating countries; the second column (11 for the first row) is the number of participating countries that did significantly better than Canada; and the third column (10 for the first row) is the number of participating countries that did significantly worse than Canada.

Grade 4 Mathematics 26 11 10
Grade 4 Science 26 15 13
Grade 8 Mathematics 41 19 19
Grade 8 Science 41 12 15

Well Doug, I see Malkin has provided another set of stats, namely the TIMSS 2011 results, which only provides more evidence, that the teachers’ union play a starring role, in preventing changes to the curriculum and instruction in the sciences and maths.

This morning in my e-mail box

Schools fail to teach many students to read

A catchy title, for the 2011 NAEP results.

“The U.S. proficiency rate in reading, at 31 percent, compares reasonably well to those of most European countries other than Finland. It takes 17th place among the nations of the world, and only the top 10 countries on PISA outperform the United States by a statistically significant amount. In Korea, 47 percent of the students are proficient in reading. Other countries that outrank the United States include Finland (46 percent), Singapore,  New Zealand, and Japan (42 percent), Canada (41 percent), Australia (38 percent), and Belgium (37 percent).”
http://educationnext.org/are-u-s-students-ready-to-compete/

Another bit of evidence, that in NA, as well as the rest of the world, celebrating the low percentages of students reaching proficiency in reading. Canada rests at 41 percent of students reaching proficiency in reading. Below is the link for the 2011 NAEP report, for further evidence from the United States.
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/main2011/2012457.asp

Moving onto another headline in my e-mail box, “Helping struggling students to succeed”
http://www.dys-add.com/resources/RecentResearch/AudioBooksStudy.pdf

In the Bright Solutions newsletter, “For some students, trying hard just isn’t enough. These students may be at a disadvantage because of widespread learning differences such as dyslexia or because of visual impairments. Studies show that for these students to succeed, an online audio library of textbooks and literature titles can make all the difference.

Research by Johns Hopkins University and case studies in the Baltimore City Public Schools showed significant improvements in students who use audiobooks. Reading comprehension improved by 76 percent, content acquisition by 38 percent, reading accuracy by 52 percent and self-confidence by 61 percent.”

In the 21st century, and all the technology at hand, our public education system in Canada, still refuse to see the mountain of research in audio-text books as the number one method to improve reading proficiency for all students. No matter what part of the education system one is looking at, audio-text books are discussed in negative terms.

Going on the union sites, is an eye-opener of using motivation, engagement, enrich literacy environments, and the other feel good stuff, that apparently is the only thing that is needed for a student to reach reading proficiency. For the students that are struggling, they are handed the solution of dogma and ideology, and not the audio-text books as the default routine practice for all students, and not just for the struggling students. On the union sites, apparently audio-text books are not effective tools for proficiency in reading.

Further evidence, that unions are more interested in having lower levels of proficiency in reading and numeracy, and blocks all methods and practices that improves and increases levels of proficiency in reading and numeracy.

Terry Moe says “Americans just like public schools.”

http://books.google.ca/books?id=5vUBiJxu32wC&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=Terry+Moe+says+Americans+love+public+schools&source=bl&ots=zLb6XNpGrY&sig=j-_7JfXOhKGbaPrsvcWCDgfLvdA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uC4CT5C9OOHW0QHS8rSsBA&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Terry Moe says Americans love public schools&f=false

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/we-dont-have-to-surrender-to-public-sector-unions/article2209954/

I only wish we could have elected someone who thought this way-things are so grim for all our children
economically because of these unions.

News on most trusted professions. Note teacher right up there but unions down at the bottom of the list…way down.

http://www.canada.com/news/canada-in-afghanistan/Trust+greatest+pharmacists+doctors+soldiers+poll+says/5941671/story.html

News on most trusted professions. Note teacher right up there but unions down at the bottom of the list…way down.

http://www.canada.com/news/canada-in-afghanistan/Trust+greatest+pharmacists+doctors+soldiers+poll+says/5941671/story.html

Posted by Dan Sing on 01/04 at 08:08 AM

Nothing new there. I said it is how the teachers feel. An attack on the union is an attack on the family. They are well aware of the wages pensions benefits and working conditions they would endure without the union. They only need to look at Right to work states in the USA.

Here`s where you`ve gotten us-
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/adam-radwanski/austeritzy-czar-wants-ontario-to-curb-health-education-spending/article2291969/

Through no influence of mine,most people are very disturbed about the adult centric penchant of school boards,their wages not such an issue but their hours and their lack of effectiveness a huge concern…for all of us.
We`re very aware of the fact that now,teachers only care about themselves-they are dissimilar to Dr.`s and nurses in that way.

It is very interesting that many defenders here say there is no teacher bashing on the site and then allow a post like that above by Jo Anne, that would be read by any teacher as vile teacher bashing.

“teachers care only about themselves-they are dissimilar to Drs and nurses in that way.”

I have seldom read such open bias and prejudice against an entire profession stated in this fashion

call Dale Carnegie

When teachers are stereotyped they get upset, like doctors, or any other group.

We should not stereotype poor kids either.

Doug is right, unfortunately.

A simple content analysis is all one needs here.

I have never seen you not agree with Doug.
Why are teachers so special that they receive that kind of pension for at times longer than they worked?

Are Dr.s getting a pension?
My 72 year old family Dr. is not.

Teachers unions have done as much if not more to contribute to the global teacher stereotype than anything or any one else, in my opinion.

How many successful students can look back on their public education careers and thank the teacher unions, school boards and administrations?  None.

It’s those good individual teachers who make a difference for students.  The unions rank exactly where they should because why should we trust them?

It is NOT the agreement with Doug that is
unfortunate, but
the point he is making about the stereotyping and consistent negatives towards a single group.

For the record I have disagreed with Doug oi\n occasion just as I have agreed with SQE
on occasion
based on being informed by the evidence presented, as best as I can interpret.

In speaking to a colleague earlier today we lamented over the fact that on too many blogs-
people rant and call names and do not act as if they are informed
they just want to shout!!

If so, that too is “unfortunate”.

The beauty about blogs, in my view, is that the gloves can and do come off regularly. Folks can be free to stand up for what they believe in and challenge that which they don’t.

Better yet, it’s not monitored and restricted by the same “blob” that binds and strangles improvements to education systems.

In speaking to colleagues we appreciate all efforts of contributors to blogs and the freedom that folks like parents and teachers not happy with their unions or who support choice can fight back and speak up.

Doug calls whatever challenges crop up “teacher bashing” - that’s his old standby holder over from the Bill 160 circus. I’m sure many contributors here who challenge the status-quo of the system have been labelled by union types as “teacher bashers” for effect but not much else.

You people just don’t seem to understand connections. It is because of the unions that many fine people are attracted to be teachers in the first place and have the small classes to deal with so your kid gets the time.

If your kid loved their teachers, thank the union for creating the environment where they could do good work.

Doug, statements in your last post, speaks to the crafted image of the union, rather than the realities. The reality cloaked under the crafted image of the unions, among the other crafted images of the public education system.

We certainly do see the connections, but it is your refusal to see the reality of the connections for what they are, and not the crafted images of the public education system.

I had hoped blogs would strive to present informed views-  and when we disagree we look for a best solution which may comes from recognizing our perspective, the opposing perspective, or some synthesis base on evidence.

belief ought to be shaped by evidence should it exist.

Oh, we see the connections just fine Doug, but what’s becoming clearer are the disconnections, like the disconnect between unions and student success.

The experience of parents and anyone else are “informed views” Mr. Myers. They’re the informed views based on those experiences and they are JUST as valued as the sage on the stage lectures from the blob.

Toronto Sun,Michael Coren today.
“There was a time when teachers taught and their unions made sure they were fairly paid. And when mums and dads assumed their tax dollars went to schools so their children could learn history instead of histrionics, and science instead of sexual perversion.

It all seems such a long time ago now, but don’t any of you dare criticize public education or unions — they’re what make Canada great.”

with all due respect
name calling such as “blob” is not informed based on evidence, even personal evidence

mind you beliefs are often considered, unfortunately, to be more powerful than facts

Teachers are parents and sometimes grandparents too.
These dual roles can be challenging

Re Michael Coren’s piece
All organizations, and individuals, from parents, to teachers, to teacher “unions’ to business, to government, even news pundits can be wise or foolish, informed or otherwise.

My pleas is to not generalize to all in all circumstances based on an example from one organization of “modest influence” in one province.

John - “the blob” is not name-calling. It’s a well known and well-used title. One that those outside “the blob” understand very well.

That it is “name-calling” is just your own point of view. I think it fits very nicely.

The experience of parents and anyone else are “informed views” Mr. Myers. They’re the informed views based on those experiences and they are JUST as valued as the sage on the stage lectures from the blob.

Posted by Chuck on 01/06 at 05:03 PM

Yes Chuck believes his views are equal to the teachers and the educrats and “the blob”. I’m sure his opinions on health are equal to his doctors.

I’m wondering why the moderators of this blog would allow a personal insult from Doug on me, yet not allow a post I posted challenging John Myers points in another thread….that was less offensive than Doug is here.

I have never seen you not agree with Doug.
Why are teachers so special that they receive that kind of pension for at times longer than they worked?

Are Dr.s getting a pension?
My 72 year old family Dr. is not.

The reason would be that teachers PAID FOR THE PENSION. And Drs or your 72 year old did not pay for it.

There ARE more teachers than almost any other job in the nation except retail clerks. Only nurses are close.

When teachers start contributing very early in the century and there are over 100 000 of them at any time and they all pay 8-15% of their wages into a fund that fund becomes very large. When it is invested wisely it becomes many times larger. Teachers NEGOTIATED long ago for employers to match teachers contribution as a critical part of their compensation package. This was all freely negotiated like any business contract.

The OPSEU pension trust (every civil servant in Ontario) is the next biggest.

These pensions are huge pools of capital for investment in the economy. They are co-managed by teachers reps and management reps.

Short answer Jo Anne. Teachers have these pensions because they paid for them. Others who did not pay for good pensions obviously don’t receive them.

“The experience of parents and anyone else are “informed views, Mr. Myers”  Chuck
I never said they weren’t.

I wish teachers and parents worked better together since +ve parental involvement seems to go hand in hand with student achievement.