KIPP is a fraud. Geoffrey Canada of the Harlem Children’s Zone would not work with them because he said “they are into creaming.“ They make parents sign behaviour contracts, they kick out all their misbehaving kids, (public schools cannot do this), their teachers are unionizing at a rapid rate because they burn them out working 6:30 AM to 9PM on call.

Their entire secret is longer days, more days per year. They do not operate on less money, they operate on less public money, they get endowments from the likes of Eli Broad, Bill Gates, etc. It is not first come first serve basis it is a lottery. First you have to be motivated to put your name in the lottery which already separates the kids. Even the low achieving kids are pushed out close to test time.

You seem to believe the KIPP spin rather than the rapidly accumulating facts.

Be careful what you wish for Doug with Geoffry Canada. You would be surprised how much he does exactly what KIPP does—same methods, same style of teaching, same results.  He also has Wall Street very much tuned into his schools. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/04/60minutes/main5889558.shtml?tag=currentVideoInfo;segmentUtilities

Asked how he can actually promise that they will go to college, Canada told Cooper, “If my kids don’t go to college, people who work for me are losing their jobs. And there’s just no way around that.“

“You’ll fire the teachers,“ Cooper remarked.

“I will fire the teachers. I’ll fire the after school workers. I’ll fire the directors. Everybody understands that this thing is our job as the adults. And we’re not gonna hold the kids responsible, right? And are some of my kids belligerent? Yes. Do some of ‘em come in and don’t try hard? Yes, they do. Do they come from broken homes? Yes. Is there poverty and drugs and crime? Yes, it’s all those things. Those kids are still going to college,“ Canada said.

Not what you want to hear?  Doug, you spin facts faster than a midway ride.

The importance to G. Canada is that he understands that the total life of the child must be addressed, the health the early childhood education and everthing like that. He is a progressive experiment. I have read everything there is on him. Sadly he feels test driven because it is the only way he knows to prove that progressive things work. He will not work with KIPP, it is right in his book because of the skimming.

Of course business backs him for 2 reasons. One is privatization but the other is that the wing of the business community with half a brain realizes that the present model of American education, falling ghettoe schools is unsustainable from a human capital perspective. That is why the ECE and health needs of poor kids, and a lot of other needs must be met before real progress can be made.

http://www.boldapproach.org

Good luck on Coran show, I will miss debating you.

I I think it’s great that KIPP is helping students succeed. but I’ve looked into some of the details. They don’t use effective curricula, so they need many more hours in school to catch up than they would need if they used accelerated learning protocols and curricula.

Their actual per-pupil costs are astronomical. In several sites in the midwest, it is around $25 000 per student. Most of this comes from private donors. The people I have corresponded with who teach in KIPP schools are happy there but do not see it as a long-term situation because it involves putting pretty much your whole life on hold. If I were younger I wouldn’t mind doing it for a few years, but it’s definitely a situation where only the young, unattached and childless can flourish.  I don’t see a problem with that, as long as the turnover is limited to a certain percentage annually.

KIPP is not a model that can be imitated by regular public schools on $9000 per pupil or thereabouts. I think we could get much better results than KIPP with better teacher training, curricula, good leadership (sorely lacking here) and a few other factors.

There are always useful lessons to be learned from successful enterprises even if they are not replicable in our circumstances. One factor that looms large in KIPP’s success is that of creating a positive school climate. The kids need to feel they have entered a different world, so to speak, than the ‘hood—one with different values and expectations and rewards.  A safe and positive environment frees the kids to engage and take risks, and makes much more time available to focus on learning.

Good comments TDSBNW. Not much to disagree with there.

Not a bad deal compared to the costs of frequent court appearances and incarceration.

And a wasted life.

Pretty thin argument Charles. I thought you were the money makes no difference crowd. If I suggested that public schools spend $25 000 per kid only on the poor kids in public schools you would have a stroke. If I even say the ELP is a great deal I get screams from this quarter. Does the word hypocracy ring a bell?

It isn’t an endorsement of your argument for more money doug; it is a comparison to the social costs of youth crime and incarceration.

See elsewhere on this blog for reactions from KIPP to certain allegations against the program.

I gladly accept the charge of hypocracy (sic) from you Mr. Little, because it continues to demonstrate that you are in such a hurry to zing off these ad hominens that you can’t be bothered with the niceties of spelling and grammar. You are the person who takes the moral and intellectual high ground here with your vast experience in “education” and your scholarly status. 

You should really ditch the playground insults and caterwauling and pay attention to your writing and sources, or bail out,.

I am a busy man Charles, I need to straighten out the folks on Crux of the Matter and Mended.com as well as my own newsletter which I am sure you will love. Don’t miss it.

http://www.thelittleeducationreport.com  it has now
36 000 subscribers and goes to almost every school in Canada as well as most important education decision makers.

Interesting that you say $25000 is cheap compared with the cost of cops, courts and jails. This is the case I have been making for public schools and the ELP but your type rejects it when it is public spending. I notice KIPP will not tell how much they get from Bill Gates, Eli Broad, the Waltons of Wal-Mart and right wing foundations around the USA.

My sources are the very best that there are.

Tell me Charles, is it frustrating that so few in the real education community agree with you or is it a vast left wing conspiracy that refuses to pay any attention to your solutions?

So, Doug, you have to straighten folks out at Crux of the Matter do you? How very interesting.

So, I was right all along. You don’t want a place to debate issues. You just want to bait and expound.

Well, I don’t know about the folks here, but my patience has run out.

You are now banned at Crux of the Matter which should free up your time to go straighten someone else out.

I cannot believe that anyone would be against schools like KIPP.  Do these same people not understand that these children are being given a real chance?
When watching the video, did they not hear both the hope and happiness in the children’s voices?
Thank God the tide is beginning to turn—more of these schools are coming.

These schools are a fraud in their data because they cream for their students, push out the misbehaving ones, push out the low achievers and they promote themselves as superior to the public schools. Everybody can see through that.

Sandy, where is your sense of irony, your board but just looks like your arguments cannot stand up to a progressive critique so you take the dictator’s way out. Doesn’t look good on you.

Doug. by the number of posts I’ve seen on here, you have WAY too much time on your hands.

I’m almost the only one on the progressive side of the debate here (unlike Ontario where the vast majority are progressive) so I have to work harder. Matt and TDSBNW have their moments.

I am retired, you guys are my fun, LOL.

Be sure to check out

http://www.thelittleeducationreport.com

You will love it I’m sure. Here is an advanced tip on the next story. For quality eduction, hire the most certified, educated experienced teachers you can. Pay they the highest wages you can possibly afford. Cut your class sizes down below 18 and do it in small schools to have the best possible system. This is the result of over 60 studies by the University of Chicago. Who knew?

“I am a busy man Charles, I need to straighten out the folks on Crux of the Matter and Mended.com as well as my own newsletter which I am sure you will love. Don’t miss it.

it has now
36 000 subscribers and goes to almost every school in Canada as well as most important education decision makers. “

How arrogant and insulting to the parents and teachers who post on those blogs.  We don’t need your help thank you.

So what if you have 36,000 subscribers?  Big deal. You are a former union leader who was part union network across the country that provides you access to every school and teacher in Canada.

I wish. Your sense of humor could use a little work there Educ8m.

It is interesting that so many of MendEd and SQE posters also post on a clearly PC site like Crux of the Matter. The partisan mask slip a little you think?

Oh I think a lot of different types post.  Kind of like how you seem to be everywhere too. Mended is hardly a conservative hotbed.  There are lots of other education blogs out there in Canada that I haven’t seen you on yet on either.

Oh, I think MendEd is pretty conservative. Most people across Ontario would find them very right wing. It is not surprising. It is one of the most conservative areas in the whole province. In 2003 only 5 ridings in Ontario had 50%+ PC vote. Murdoch’s was one of them.

Love them all including my Tory family where I grew up in Owen Sound but you all need to get out more and see that very few actually share your opinion.

Mr. Little, this is a collection of your grammatical and lexical neglect, from this page alone.

I’m surprised you don’t seem to think this has any effect on your credibility as an educator.

===========================================

“Sandy, where is your sense of irony, your board but just looks like your arguments cannot stand.“

Mr. Little, this is a collection of your grammatical and lexical neglect, from this page alone.

“The partisan mask slip a little you think?“

“...an advanced tip on the next story. For quality eduction, hire the most certified, educated ...“

“...These schools are a fraud in their data because they cream for their students,...“

“.Does the word hypocracy ring a bell?

“...not first come first serve basis it is a lottery”

“He is a progressive experiment. “

“Good luck on Coran show, “

I guess your arguments didn’t stand up very well so you try to make some kind of point out of this. I don’t have time for editing Charles. I am a Communications specialist. I worked in the Communications and Political Action Dept of OSSTF where I wrote for their internal publications, wrote sppeches for the president, policy briefs reports and the like Charles. No complains, only compliments.

The truth is often stranger than fiction.