If you get a chance roving reporter try to slip over to the Bahamas to THIS terrific school which is looking for teachers. Anyone know of any out of work teachers in Ontario that would like this non-unionized environment?
http://beta.islandschool.org/joinapply.aspx

those small class sizes don’t seem to help much.  state assessments report that only 45% of high school students are at level 3 for reading and 36% at level 3 for science.  in an such isolated area, it may not be possible to blame this on immigrants. 

http://schoolgrades.fldoe.org/

“The SSS articulate challenging content that Florida students are expected to know and be able to do. The SSS were developed in seven content areas and were adopted by the State Board of Education in May 1996. All public schools are expected to teach students the content found in the SSS.
Achievement Levels describe the success a student has achieved on the Florida Sunshine State Standards tested on the FCAT Reading, Mathematics, Science, and Writing assessments. Achievement Levels were first reported for FCAT Science in spring 2006 and FCAT Writing+ in spring 2007.1
Achievement Levels, based on both scale scores and developmental scale scores, range from 1 (lowest) to 5 (highest).2 Achievement Level Policy Definitions apply to all FCAT subjects.”
http://fcat.fldoe.org/pdf/fcAchievementLevels.pdf

The above is to give the right context, for the full achievement stats below.
http://doeweb-prd.doe.state.fl.us/eds/nclbspar/year1011/nclb1011.cfm?dist_schl=11_51

“Title I Program at Everglades City School

Posted here are links and documentation regarding Everglades City School’s designation as a Title I school. This is important because it holds the school accountable as to the funding resources that are granted to our school. “

http://www.collier.k12.fl.us/evg/TitleOne.htm

More details on Title 1 programs
http://www.brighthub.com/education/k-12/articles/11105.aspx

The white population represent 83 percent of the school population. I believe here, achievement rests on the curriculum and instruction methods more so, than outside SEC factors, judging from the above links. I have been doing a lot of reading in rural education research by American researchers that clearly shows and outlines the case for curriculum and instruction change. Some of the best achievement results comes from small rural school America, and it is done with far less resources and funds than an urban schools has at its disposal.

I think we should have a province wide referendum on class size. Those ridings that vote that it is not important would get class sizes of 30 each and those ridings that vote that class size is very important would get class sizes of 15. Solves the problem right? Everybody gets what they want.

Funny how the private schools advertise their low clas sizes. Our formula at VIP? we tell the parents not one class will be larger than 10, only certified teachers will be hired, the principal has superintendent papers and, if they can pass our admission test they are guaranteed U of T. If they are not admitted first time they come back free until admitted.

What a formula, they love it.

Is it really a good idea to raise the “VIP” thing again, Doug?

All it proves is that McGuinty snowed Ontarians with a promise he couldn’t afford Doug.

It also didn’t help students. 

It would never be a campaign issue now. Education wasn’t even on the minds of Ontarians last provincial election…not even close enough to warrant much ink, or air time.

Ontarians would never be fooled again by those types of schemes designed to bloat the ranks of teachers, and pretty much not much else.

Seems like the voters just rejected the PCs again 100 days ago.

Seems like Ontarians agree with the teachers especially if you add the NDP and Liberal votes and seats together.

Wait and see what happens if McGuinty tries to roll back class sizes. He knows the parents will lynch him. One of the problems you and John L have is that you both constantly confuse your opinions with majority opinions. I have spent years pouring over the polls on education and like the 15% support for funding more religious schools, you need to face up to the fact that your views do not represent majority thinking.

Always dangerous to claim to know what the “majority”, or teachers or parents or…

As has been pointed out repeatedly Doug’s views are his and his alone. 

As to McGuinty rolling back class sizes he already has.  During the last election campaign his “no more than 20” morphed into a “your child is one of only 23”. 

As always we have to differentiate between parent support for their kids and their teachers.  The two are not the same.

In any case this is getting old.

Doug’s not fooling anyone John L. He doesn’t speak for the majority. He speaks only for himself.

Right you are also that McGuinty has scaled back his class size promise already. So Doug’s spinning will not work on that score either.

Getting old? Yes, very.

We have a way of deciding what the majority wants. It is called having elections. We had an election focussed on giving public money to private schools and the advocate of that proposition got hammered. He was hammered so badly that the next party leader did not even support the policy again.

All of the parties and advocacy groups poll all of the time and those polls tell the same story. There is almost no support for public financing of private schools.

The only evidence I have that your ideas are unpopular and the ones I support are popular is that the elections keep coming out supporting the people who oppose giving public money to private schools. The elections and the polls say your views are unpopular. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

The PCs have abandoned privatization because they know it is a loser. The other two don’t support it and yet you persist that the people want it. Based on what,that you and 15% want it?

The major parties, unions and other players in public policy poll every 3-4 months on this. It is time you realized that the reason you don’t get very far is that “the people” aren’t interested in the ideas.

Try and stick to the issue Doug, which is the sham of the lower class size promise.

It’s proven itself to be one big money-sucker and not helpful to students.

Education is not on the minds of Ontarians or candidates these days, because fewer and fewer Ontarians have children in public schools, while more and more aging Ontarians are going to need vastly improved healthcare and social services. The time is approaching quickly when something’s going to have to give and if I were a betting man I’d put my money on saying bye-bye to lowering class sizes and losing a ton more of public education’s blob bureaucrats.

I think that the candidate next time who runs on getting rid of school boards would be VERY popular.

So, the Ontario government does policy by a public policy poll every few months?  Odd, in a minority government, and a Toronto school board who has officially provided a number of boutique academies.

“The Toronto District School Board has opened registration for its new boutique academies – including all-boys, all-girls, sports-focused and music-specialized programs – located at nine elementary schools.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/how-torontos-boutique-academies-will-work/article2306081/

I suppose the next poll will be on Apple’s elbowing into the textbook publishers sphere. “Apple Inc. (AAPL-Q427.75-1.36-0.32%) is leveraging its massive success in the mobile device market to disrupt the slow-moving but hugely lucrative textbook industry.”

The above must be a threat to some of the stakeholders within. especially the haters of e-learning. A bigger threat because e-learning can happen anytime and anywhere, and not just in the classroom of a school. “Yes Miss, I did my homework, but I did all of the unit’s questions, and I want to do the next unit?”.

Parents are saving their pennies and dollars, as I am too, to purchased the Apple i-pad for my 16 year old. The tablet market will shake up the players within the education system, and pave the way to change the focus of the questions being asked on the polls. Just like the boutique schools, will do for offering full choice to students and their parents.

Polls Doug, are useful but when the policy planners have their eyes on the polls, justifying their decisions on the polls - the world continues to change, new knowledge and advances are being made regardless of polls and their snapshots in time. And Apple, will pave the way in self-paced learning - anywhere and anytime. Focusing on polls tends to dismiss innovations in the outside world, that changes people’s thinking and the values they hold fast and quick. And before the stakeholders within the education system can blink, the polls are asking questions on things, that no longer matters. The horses have already bolted, and the stakeholders inside the education system are still thinking that values have not change, and the focus now becomes dogma and ideology to persuade the horses to return to the barn of self-serving interests and agendas.

What the folks inside the public education system call privatization, is innovation knocking at the door ready and eager to change the values of a public education system of self-serving interests and fossilized ideas of a by-gone era that no longer exists in today’s world. .

Smaller class sizes improve results, I can prove it. I wish McGuinty would focus it more on poorer schools but this is OK.

I would love to have an election where class size was the issue or a referendum on it. Class size reduction is very popular, in fact it is the single most popular education reform. This is why private schools tout their smaller classes.

If mcGuinty tries to reverse it, huge #s of votes and union support will move to the NDP.

It is popular, it is progressive, it works and those who oppose it do it at their peril.

In all honesty.both are crucial,methodology,what they`re doing now is a joke and imperils many children in the early grades and from K-3 ,small class sizes.

The foundation years are so important and the children need to learn their basics,if they acquire them,then a return to larger classes won`t harm them.

The devil is in the details and of course the details are never discussed.

I believe if the marriage of methodology and small class were present,the research would indeed show effectiveness but without the right curriculum being recommended by the MOE we continue to threaten at least 50% of the class.

You will lose that bet Chuck. The only way for a modern nation to compete is to have better “human capital” in other words nmore educated students. Parents continue to demand school improvement. There are only 2 ways to do that, continuous class size cuts,continuous improvements in teacher quality like Finland, a masters degree to teach grade 2 and ELP ECE also helps.

Doug, SE classes also tout small class size as a benefit, and yet the alternative curriculum is dumbed down to the lowest levels, to avoid the hard work of remediation of student’s learning weaknesses. Ditto in the inclusive classroom, small classes are not effective when using the wrong curriculum that works hard to prevent steady progress of students.

It is what parents are waking up to across Canada, and is further driven down their throats, when the powers to be within the education system insists it is their way, and proceeds to use the regulation regime to enforce it.

Parents know deep down, the curriculum and instruction practices are not in the best interests of their children’s education, and small class size is attractive to parents, can protect their children in various degrees from the curriculum and instruction practices that plays havoc with their children’s learning strengths and weaknesses.

Toss in teacher training practices, small class size loses its effectiveness, due to the gaps in students’ knowledge and the basic foundation in the 3 Rs.

As Joanne has pointed out, the students’ gaps begin in the primary grades for 50 percent of the students, and starting in grade 4, the gaps in students’ knowledge, will widen or begin to close on a combination of school variables and a combination of parents’ actions.

Class size is not as effective, when the education policies strives to cater to the best interests of those within the education system first and foremost, using curriculum and practices that plays havoc with students’ learning strengths and weaknesses, that does not follow the science and advances being made in learning.

I have to laugh at this comment, ” Smaller class sizes improve results.”. Why? Under the current practices of the public education system, it ensures the majority of students will received a passing grade of 50 percent, without having to tend to the students gaps of knowledge as well as the remediation of students’ learning weaknesses. One of the reasons why progressives are pushing for gradeless report cards, to maintain the status-quo of reaching only 50 percent of a student’s potential.
To reach the full potential of students, would mean an end to the gravy train within the education system, as well as weakening the self-serving interests and agendas of those within.

Better be careful with the words human capital.
A lot of discussion taking place, with multi-facet viewpoints, and human capital is not about educating more students. That much I know.

Wikipedia on human capital and what it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_capital

Three articles on human capital and the education component. Diverse in views, but easy to read, compared to the philosophical discussions taking place on the education blogs on human capital.

http://education.illinois.edu/newlearning/learning-investment.html
“Similar observations, however, could be made of the school’s human resources. Teaching to the middle of the class, where some learners are bored and others lost, is hardly efficient—customized learning is more efficient. And why does the ratio of learners to teachers need to be so consistent, when today’s learning environments could span a broader range, as needed, from one teacher to one learner, to one teacher to a great many learners? “

http://donnellkay.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/redesigning-education-from-frustration-to-hope/

http://www.newfoundations.com/SchoolResponsibility.htm

As one can tell, the small sample of readings, it all depends on what the definition of an education is and the agendas and goals that are being discussed.  But I get a sinking feeling, that Doug’s version is to set up the conditions to produced a steady gap of knowledge, skills and abilities, that ensures the education work force many jobs in the future, as well as expanding the public sector work force, to take care of the many pressing social problems that is the result of an education system that serves first to secure their best interests.

perhaps a useful study:  Ontario’s Private Schools: Who Chooses Them and Why?  It was a based on a survey of 919 households with children in private schools.

http://www.ofis.ca/UWO-Study-May2007.pdf

It argues that small class size is not an important factor in selecting religious schools, and is fourth down the list in selecting an academic school (after ‘motivates students’, ‘offers individualized attention’, and ‘educates the whole child’).  Perhaps class size isn’t as popular as Doug suggests.

It also has a relevant insight to the election mandate: private school attendance has grown from 1.9 percent of students in 1960 to 5.6 percent in 2006, and parents choosing private schools are more likely to vote in provincial elections (93% to 59%).

Given their higher participation rates, private school parents represented about 10% of the voters in 2006, a number that has likely grown since then. 

Fully 94% of parents choosing private schools cited disappointment with public schools as a factor.  Having fled the public system, they have no interest in funding it (in fact the opposite), face no academic penalty for their children if public schools are pruned back, and have a low regard for public education - a potent combination that may become influential in some future election.

Hi Tom,

SQE is very familiar with this study since we commissioned it!  A better link is here: http://www.societyforqualityeducation.org/reports/OntariosPrivateSchools.pdf 

Dr. Van Pelt used this as the basis for her Ph.D. (UWO) thesis, which can be found here: http://www.redeemer.ca/faculty/deani-vanpelt.aspx

Funny, the elite private schools continue to tout their small classes. I guess it is ok for them but not the great unwashed.

I can’t tell you how happy it makes me to see the corporate reform group oppose small classes because it means you will be forever marginalized in the education debate. Small classes are very popular and progressive and as a result aligns the lib-left with the aspirations of the majority of the parents.

Even parents of low socio-economic means would choose something better than public if they had the option and the money.

I was listening to a story this morning from a Toronto Star journalist about how he helped get a 17 year old girl out of a middle eastern country (can’t recall which one) because she her life was being threatened for wanting to attend school. It was a very touching story filled with the danger that comes from trying to get the girl out of her country. She’s in Ontario now, and grateful to be free to be getting the best education we can provide for her. Except, she’s attending Ashbury College in Ottawa. I thought for sure, coming from the Star as it did that we’d be singing the praises of the public school system, but nope.

I see the 2 kinds of schools:

1) I want to give my kid an advantage. They did site individual attention which does come from smaller classes.

2) Religious schools. I want to pass on my religious POV.

Hard to see how either one of those deserve public money.

The public certainly does not want to give snob schools or religious schools public money. I doubt the first group even wants it. The second group ought not to expect public money to support private religious decisions.

Given a choice and means most parents would choose the best education for their children. You sir just don’t like the fact that if a choice were available to them they may choose something other than the public school system.

I am sorry is scares you so much Doug but that’s where we’re headed.

The parents of Toronto have had an open boundary policy for 40 years and the freedom to create any school they want that keeps with ministry guidelines. Montessori and similar are out to to liscencing etc. Religion is out for obvious reasons.

Very few are in alternative public schools. Almost all kids are in neighbourhood schools.

Doug, a big reason why children in Toronto attend neighbourhood schools, because schools are not nearby the routes of the transportation system. Another reason, it may require two or three transfers, and a bit of a walk. Most parents think about it, pondering on what will be most suited to the family’s situation.

Given the conditions placed on the alternative schools, only a percentage of parents are willing to jump through the hoops, to have their child go to a school that they think is more suited for their child.

If parents had true choice and alternatives, The public schools would have to improve, if they wanted to maintain the majority. Bonus, schools would be less likely to bubble-wrapped kids, and penned in special needs kids in an enclosure ( a hockey rink), as a Nova Scotia school did and apparently will continue to do so. Disappointment comes in many and various forms, and what ticks off parents when the schools’ actions hurts the long-term futures of their children. But than again Doug, I guess who have never had the pleasure of driving your kid back and forth to school, because of the bullying on the school bus. Actions of parents are very revealing of working around policies and the ineffective actions of those within the education system.

Given a choice and means most parents would choose the best education for their children. You sir just don’t like the fact that if a choice were available to them they may choose something other than the public school system.

I am sorry is scares you so much Doug but that’s where we’re headed.

If we removed “religion” from the private school public funding debate there would be near zero support for it.

Elite schools don’t want public money because this would allow a lower class of student to attend and these snobs don’t want that.

Dan we had an election on religious non RC funding. the PCs were beaten so badly on that in an election that John Tory otherwise might have won, that they said in the next 2011 election that they “were not going to go there”. The other 2 parties simply oppose funding private schools full stop. Where on Earth do you get the idea that “this is where we are headed”.

Get Fraser Institute to do some “fair question” polling. The schools need to be called “private” or “Private religious” schools not independent alternative schools to get numbers up because the Liberals and NDP will call them “private and religious” schools in any election, like it or not.

If you do that , you will see that the idea is very very unpopular. Get that through your head.